Comments on: SHOULD TRADITIONAL MEDIA CREDIT THEIR ONLINE SOURCES?

By: Snowman

Snowman — Sat, 23 Jan 2010 14:50:39 +0000

All you need do is send Independent Newspapers an account for your content which they had lifted without requesting permission … photographers do so too. (Suggestion: R5,000-00)

By: Alan

Alan — Mon, 21 Sep 2009 12:35:15 +0000

On Friday Morning 18 September the local Port Elizabeth newspaper printed a Letter to the Editor – 90% of it lifted straight from the MyPE web site with no accreditation whatsover.

After my ‘small’ grumble about it on Saturday they printed an apology in the 21 September edition.

So, Seth, it seems like SOME traditional media are acknowledging the need to play nice and credit online sources.

See the Grumble and apology.

By: Halle

Halle — Tue, 08 Sep 2009 19:37:35 +0000

Seth, agreed, credit should have been given where credit is due. I think your blog is fabulous. I have now told some friends about it as well.

JimBeam “I’m sure Halle just trolled search engines on the subject to add her “invaluable” input on every blog to support Brandon.”?

No. This is the first and only blog where I showed support for Brandon. I liked its flow, the comments and the fact that it was more personal. I was mad and expressed my thoughts at some of the comments. Freedom of speech:)

Although I have now read the “Brandon” story many times over, in many different versions from all over the world. I have to say that I’m not one to go comment and repeat my self in a useless fashion. The person who matters knows he has a great deal of support from me and everyone around him.

Also,I strongly resent being called possibly his “ex” by the journalist in question. You guys have seen the pictures. If I came out looking like that, the Dr. would have slapped my mama!

By: Spike

Spike — Tue, 08 Sep 2009 15:26:27 +0000

Alan wrote: “Scroll down to the Compare To: box, below the pretty graph you see on Alexa.com with the 2Oceansvibe statistics and then type in capetimes.co.za then click on the Compare button.”

The discussion was about the print edition of the Cape Times, not the website. The website is a piece of crap that bears no relation to the print version.

By: Rashid

Rashid — Tue, 08 Sep 2009 14:53:54 +0000

>• Spike Says:
>September 8th, 2009 at 1:21 pm
>“Rashid Says:
>September 7th, 2009 at 10:55 pm
>Local rags such as the Cape Times and the Cape Argus tend to be quite slow on the pick up when it comes to international news. I tend to avoid them as they give me a strong sense of déjà-vu.”
>If you avoid them, how do you know they are “quite slow on the pick up”? Make up your mind.

Did you actually read the comment properly? If you did, you would have noticed that the word “tend” was placed before “to avoid”.
Are you familiar with the meaning of the word “tend”? It has a similar meaning to “inclination”.

By: Alan

Alan — Tue, 08 Sep 2009 14:47:58 +0000

erm gentlemen and not so gentlemen, statistics do not lie.

Go to: 2Oceansvibe Alexa Statistics to see independently assessed statistics for 2Oceansvibe.

Scroll down to the Compare To: box, below the pretty graph you see on Alexa.com with the 2Oceansvibe statistics and then type in capetimes.co.za then click on the Compare button.

Read ‘em and weep.

By: Spike

Spike — Tue, 08 Sep 2009 12:39:00 +0000

Ask any advertising agency – Cape Times’s audited circulation (Audit Bureau of Circulation), ie sales, is between 49 000 and 51 000. Their All Media Products (Amps) figures, which the ad agencies use to calculate the cost of ad placement, is in the region of 280 000 readers. The Cape Times has all but eliminated bulk from their figures. The only bulk they do is sampling, ie handing out free copies in targeted areas to encourage subscriptions, and that is legitimate.

Your statement that Cape Times circulation “is a third of that at best” is rubbish – if that were true, advertisers would have taken the newspaper to court years ago.

By: fredhatman

fredhatman — Tue, 08 Sep 2009 12:32:25 +0000

@Alan Third of a million? Where did you hear/read that? In an Indescribable Newspapers title? Ask them about the copies they offload on to schools etc so that they can be included in the ABC figures? They call it “bulk copies”. Big scam. Cape Crimes circ is a third of that, at best… but you’d have to be the MD to know!

By: Spike

Spike — Tue, 08 Sep 2009 11:21:09 +0000

“Rashid Says:
September 7th, 2009 at 10:55 pm
Local rags such as the Cape Times and the Cape Argus tend to be quite slow on the pick up when it comes to international news. I tend to avoid them as they give me a strong sense of déjà-vu.”

If you avoid them, how do you know they are “quite slow on the pick up”? Make up your mind.

Alan Says:
September 8th, 2009 at 8:05 am
“The Cape Crimes and all other traditional media lose credibility on a daily basis.”

If that’s the case, why do nearly a third of a million Capetonians read the Cape Times daily?

By: Seth Rotherham

Seth Rotherham — Tue, 08 Sep 2009 09:08:54 +0000

*yawn

By: Simon

Simon — Tue, 08 Sep 2009 08:37:19 +0000

That picture (“A traditional printing press”) of the newspapers on the rollers… where did you get that from Seth?

I see no credits for that.

By: Alan

Alan — Tue, 08 Sep 2009 06:05:09 +0000

It simply boils down to not playing nice in the playground.

An example: You tell your mate / girlfriend a juicy story and what is the first thing they ask?

“Where did you hear that?”

Why do they ask that question?

Simply because they want to feel confident with your source and pass the message on.

If you refuse to divulge the source of your juicy story then you lose credibility with your friend.

And the upshot of my maudlin tirade?

The Cape Crimes and all other traditional media lose credibility on a daily basis.

A warning to all traditional media and business in general – if you think that you are Number One or refer to yourself as the Mighty (Insert Name Here) or reckon you have learned it all then it is time to get out of the game boys!

By: Rashid

Rashid — Mon, 07 Sep 2009 20:55:16 +0000

Local rags such as the Cape Times and the Cape Argus tend to be quite slow on the pick up when it comes to international news. I tend to avoid them as they give me a strong sense of déjà-vu.

From a legal standpoint, news and actuality is generally considered to be in the public domain and you will have a hard time proving any form of copyright. That’s why you won’t see the Cape Times legal department knocking on your door when you print an image or story from their paper. Most bloggers read a combination of traditional and online media outlets and form their own opinion without citing or quoting any sources. This is blogging.

The best they can do is credit you as “2oceansvibe”, but in many cases – they could simply refer to you as a “blogger” or a “website”.

You could of course make a complaint to the Press Council which could force them to print an apology. Worth a shot.
(Just give us a heads up so that we know when to buy the paper!

By: RF

RF — Mon, 07 Sep 2009 19:57:07 +0000

Some might consider it plagiarism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plagiarism

By: Duncan B

Duncan B — Mon, 07 Sep 2009 15:42:50 +0000

You are not alone. For a discussion of blogs not being credited by traditional media (with a bunch of examples), see http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20090904/0416086107.shtml

By: fredhatman

fredhatman — Mon, 07 Sep 2009 13:01:40 +0000

Seth, I’ve worked on newspapers for more years than I care to remember and it’s pure and simple: the trad media (particularly newspapers) are largely run by old men who would rather live with their heads in the sand than even begin to think about properly embracing online media. Witness the parlous state of iol.co.za. These media dinosaurs are so entrenched in their ways and find so much safety and comfort in sticking to the old formulaic ways of providing news that they simply won’t wake up to the digital revolution. In a few years they will drop the poisoned chalice (cliche overload here!) and retire and the younger newspaper journos will have to move like hell to catch up. The US, and to a lesser extent Europe, are on to it but SA papers, with a few notable exceptions, perhaps because of their lack of digital expertise, choose to ignore the obvious: that more and more people are getting their news (and entertaining reads) online. So they live in ignorance and fear and this informs the “laager” mentality” which dictates that bloggers and online news outlets don’t have their journalistic credibility and shouldn’t be credited with breaking the news that they feel belongs to them… even if they are constantly having to play catch-up… they inhabit another planet… and it is spinning, nay rotating on an ever-slowing axis… we can only sit at our laptops and wait for Planet Poephol to topple over. Phew! Glad to have got that off my chest. Keep up the good work. Not everybody is fooled. Fred

By: Elle

Elle — Mon, 07 Sep 2009 11:14:08 +0000

I’m surprised the editorial team didn’t pick up on this. Sources should be mentioned especially if the publication would like to keep their ‘saliency’… Rookie error.

By: Big Rob

Big Rob — Mon, 07 Sep 2009 10:41:28 +0000

At UCT one of my profs always referred to them as the Cape Crimes. Quite fitting in this case. Shoddy journalism.

By: Seth Rotherham

Seth Rotherham — Mon, 07 Sep 2009 10:41:25 +0000

Mark, thanks for the comment. You’ll notice by the date stamp on the article, that it came out on 2oceansvibe on the 31st (http://www.2oceansvibe.com/2009/08/31/white-mowbray-man-gets-refugee-status-in-canada/). But that is not the issue here. This has nothing to do with the original story and timing – this has to do with the sources of the Cape Times aritcle that came out on the 2nd. You’ll notice from the above story that there is a quote from the journalist confirming that the source of the article in question, was 2oceansvibe and that the Cape Times consciously decided not to give the credit. As Jazzman referred, this is not to do with BREAKNIG the story. I’m not claming any kind of exclusive. When I used the word “breaking” it should be quoted in context, ie., “breaking on 2oceansvibe.” That’s what happened. I was referring to the moment that I broke the story on 2oceansvibe to my readers.

Let’s keep our eye on the ball here.

thanks for your comments and support.

By: craig

craig — Mon, 07 Sep 2009 10:37:00 +0000

Yeah, I agree… I read lots of blogs and you always see some one referencin where they get there information from weather it be another blog or news website. Its the respectful thing to do and the right thing to do. I personally think that if the newspapers got it from you, then correct, they should reference… Its almost like she stole your article without even doing any work!

JimBeam: You just being stupid about it. There is nothing wrong with spreading information (i agree), AT ALL, but then just reference where it came from and show a little respect to the writer. Think about it… You write a nice long article on your site only to see half of it on the front page of the newspaper the following day, I’m sure you’d be very stoked!

By: Deems

Deems — Mon, 07 Sep 2009 10:36:49 +0000

Credit should always be given where it’s due, irrespective of the medium. If they didn’t have 2OceansVibe as a source they wouldn’t have had a lead in to an article. Very unprofessional. Give ‘em hell, Seth.

By: Mark

Mark — Mon, 07 Sep 2009 10:31:11 +0000

I agree with your general point about traditional media crediting. Totally not acceptable. It is however probably not accurate to state The Cape Times got the story tip from your website. It is clear – from the time on the comments on the original article – that you published your first story last Monday night. (Sept 1) The first local story I saw on this topic, was on News24 on Monday afternoon. It was then picked up by Cape Talk etc. Your reader Holly probably saw it on News24 or heard it on Cape Talk. (See the time stamp on the News24 article http://www.news24.com/Content/SouthAfrica/News/1059/288551f8ba4e4d94afe1fc21c132ca14/31-08-2009-02-55/SA_white_gets_refugee_status) The first the Cape Times saw the story was probably on News24. But there is also no credit to News24 in the Cape Times.

By: Jazzman

Jazzman — Mon, 07 Sep 2009 10:18:33 +0000

Oh dear Jimbeam you seem like a very stiff pedantic person. I think I speak for everyone besides yourself when I say that when seth referred to breaking story he was probably talking about a story breaking on 2oceansvibe. It did not for one second give the impression that he was claming the worldwide exclusive(is that is the word you are looking for?) otherwise he wouldn’t have mentioned an external source. then you mention the guide to new readers, followed by “but.” you obviously need to read it again I have. from here it looks like you might have a hidden agenda. Seth I really feel sorry for you that you have to deal with these bored negative types. you’ve got my full support. bugger the traditional media they get it all wrong anyway.

By: Billy

Billy — Mon, 07 Sep 2009 10:02:22 +0000

Very crap on CT behalf. Nail them.

By: Jan D

Jan D — Mon, 07 Sep 2009 09:58:17 +0000

Not cool, Cape Times, not cool.

By: alan

alan — Mon, 07 Sep 2009 09:37:05 +0000

They probably should. But shouldn’t online media REFRAIN FROM SHOUTING on their page/post titles..

By: rafiq

rafiq — Mon, 07 Sep 2009 09:36:29 +0000

I was actually watching etv when your URL popped up, made me smile.

Mayhaps the journo needs Jounalism 101?

By: Brazen

Brazen — Mon, 07 Sep 2009 09:31:20 +0000

People must always credit the source. After all, sharing is caring.

By: Stii

Stii — Mon, 07 Sep 2009 09:19:36 +0000

I’m with Nic on this one. If you did the same to them, you would possibly get slammed with some lawyers letter.

Else it is simple. Aggregate their posts on you blog under a latest / breaking news section without giving any credit nor linking back. See how they like them apples!

By: The Marketer

The Marketer — Mon, 07 Sep 2009 09:09:13 +0000

Newspapers love holding to the defense that bloggers are an unprofessional, poorly sourced rabble of wannabee journalists. And yet it’s this kind of hypocritical approach that exemplifies how out of touch they are (I would have to say, with the exception of the 24 group). The Independent group really does continue to lose ground…

By: Rebecca

Rebecca — Mon, 07 Sep 2009 09:03:14 +0000

I think this is appalling. I work in the media industry too, and while I know it is common practice to use blogs and social media for tip offs about breaking stories, quoting chunks of content from your site and not crediting it is really bad journalism.

By: Nic

Nic — Mon, 07 Sep 2009 09:01:13 +0000

What an absolute embarrassment. I think that you should call the writers senior editor and have a discussion with them.

Completely unacceptable Seth, don’t be so chilled.

By: JimBeam

JimBeam — Mon, 07 Sep 2009 08:59:18 +0000

The other certainty, besides death & taxes, is that on-line media will always be ahead of the printed version not only by virtue of the printing presses having to be set-up etc. I am a firm believer in freedom of information and the unhindered spread thereof so I am struggling to understand your gripe here. Is it that you want credit (for commercial purposes perhaps perhaps) for the “breaking story” or is it a matter of hurt pride that you were not even mentioned? Did you yourself not get the story somewhere else? If so, how is your blog post a “breaking story”
Besides, I’m sure Halle just trolled search engines on the subject to add her “invaluable” input on every blog to support Brandon.
I have read your “a guide to new 2ocean readers” but I think the commercial aspect of your blog is starting to take over from the fun/informative/live the holiday scene just a bit.
Apologies if this riles you a bit but I really do believe that information should be spread by whatever means necessary even if it does mean treading on a few toes here and there.

Use it, don’t use it.

By: Steve B

Steve B — Mon, 07 Sep 2009 08:24:38 +0000

Cape Times being very unprofessional, bru…