Loyiso Gola Responds To Sipho Hlongwane
Yesterday afternoon, a column written by Sipho Hlongwane lamenting what he saw to be a lack of quality comedic performance in South Africa was published on 2oceansVibe.com. The article attracted a flurry of comments, all of which were strongly opinionated. Now Loyiso Gola, South African comic and main subject of Sipho’s column, has responded. Click through for Loyiso’s reply, Sipho’s column, and links to posts written in response to Sipho’s column.
Read Where Are All The Good Comedians?
Loyiso’s reply.
I THINK YOUR OPINION PIECE IS WELL THOUGHT OUT, YOU KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. YOU WERE THERE WITH DAVID KAU AT THE BAXTER WHEN HE WAS PLAYING TO 12 PEOPLE EVERY NIGHT AS A STUDENT IN 2001 TO SELLING OUT A 5000 SEATER TEN YEARS LATER. YOU WERE THERE WHEN WAS WHEN HE WAS CULTIVATING AN AUDIENCE. OH YEAH I REMEMBER SEEING YOU EVERYDAY ON THE SET OF PURE MONATE SHOW WHEN DAVID KAU AND KAGISO LEDIGA INTRODUCED THE MASSES TO STAND UP COMEDY.
YOUR EXPERTISE ON THIS SUBJECT ARE SPOT ON, THE MILLIONS OF PEOPLE WHO TUNE IN EVERY WEDNESDAY TO WATCH LNN ARE MORONS AND THE E NEWS CHANNEL ARE CRAZY FOR GIVING US A THIRD SEASON IN SEPTEMBER. 10000 PEOPLE WERE CRAZY TO BUY TICKETS TO TREVOR NOAH’S TOUR. 6000 PEOPLE INSIDE THE ROYAL ALBERT HALL LONDON ARE MAD TO PAY 60 POUNDS TO WATCH SOUTH AFRICAN ACTS. YOUR OPINION IS WELL RESEARCHED.
ALL THOSE YOUNG BOYS AND GIRLS IN HIGH SCHOOL FROM ALL RACES WHO COME UP TO ME ON THE STREET TO TELL ME THEY WANT TO DO STAND UP COMEDY BECAUSE THEY SAW ME DO IT. I MUST TELL THEM THEY ARE DELUSIONAL.
YOUR OPINION MATTERS TO ME AND I WILL TRY VERY HARD TO TO IMPRESS YOU. HOW DARE SOUTH SOUTH AFRICA LAUGH AT THEMSELVES!
Read comedian, Warren Roberston’s reply to Sipho’s column, here.
A debate is happening in the zeitgeist. What are your thoughts on satire and comedy in South Africa?
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24 Comments
Mattcredible
22 Jun 2011
SCHOOLED!!!
Evert
22 Jun 2011
Why do people still write everything in uppercase?
BCM
22 Jun 2011
There’s nothing like facts to back an argument eh?!
Dre
22 Jun 2011
like our dear prez would say “we need to debate this issue”…
that article by sipho must have set a record for comments on 2ov.
would love to see Sipho and Loyiso in a ring….
BR
22 Jun 2011
Sipho got served.
BH
22 Jun 2011
Just because it’s the best of a bad bunch doesn’t mean it’s any good. In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
The fact that there’s an audience says nothing about the quality of what’s on offer, ask the millions that tune in to Jersey Shore.
Anton
22 Jun 2011
Loyiso’s argument is flawed. I know of 60 000 people that went to see a Britney concert – still means Britney’s music is crap. What he is saying is that he and Noah appeal to the LCD’s with fart jokes and somehow this makes them credible comics? What would you rather own, a Picasso or a mass produced hotel painting that sold 10 000 copies?
jay
22 Jun 2011
I love lamp…
Smallz
22 Jun 2011
The whole debate about having thousands or millions of supporters and still being regarded as crap is heavily flawed. Britney Spears is good because of her millions of fans. Millions like her and I am sure they would have a good reason for it if you asked them. Just because she is making commercial music does not mean she sucks. Critics like Sipho have opinions which can be argued against. Quality is always debatable and sits in the eye of the beholder. You cannot argue against visible support or packed out venues. Juju is suspect as a politician but people listen to him…in their millions! You can sit on your high horse and say “I can’t understand why he/she is so popular” or find out why for yourself and hold a better debate if you feel otherwise. Respect the masses I say…even if you do not follow them.
silverstreak
(@) 22 Jun 2011
So thousands, hundreds of thousands, millions of Nazi's should be "respected"? Quantity of followers equates mass agreement, not necessarily mass rationality.
Smallz
22 Jun 2011
@ Silverstreak – I thought of this very thing – Nazi masses.You misunderstand what I am saying. It saddens me to say it but there is alot we can learn from Nazi’s and Hitler about getting people on your side and being organised as a mass. Respect the fact that Hitler managed to convince them of his brutal policies. There is more to it than a lunatic at the helm of a country or a comedian cracking lame jokes to a very happy large so called dumb audience.Those jokes are obviously not that lame to those masses, which indicates where their head space is at, which shows where our country is at with comedy, which in turn gives you the info you need to do something about the situation. Pointing and saying its crap, why are these people so famous… is all good for critical debate and making yourself seem intellectually superior…but does not really achieve anything outside of that circle. People follow people who can do shit for them!Respect that because those masses are trying to tell you something in a whole bunch of ways. If you do not get the nub of why they are following someone you will not be able to effectively counter it or work with it. This is why Palestine and Israel are still at war – a significant amount of them have never respected each other. Make sense?
BH
23 Jun 2011
How did we get from crap comedians to Hitler? Lets focus on the subject people – taking a stand against mediocrity! I’m afraid you lose all credibiliy the instant you say that Britney Spears is anything other than crap. Millions of Americans love spray on cheese, Curling is an olympic sport, JZ is president, Robert Mugabe has a following, Millions of Germans love the Hoff’s music and Katie Price still walks the planet. Because something or someone has a following does NOT mean it’s any good. It usually means that there is either nothing better on offer, or a large group of people share a common shit taste.
Jay
23 Jun 2011
I particularly love the way that @Smallz has explained propaganda during the first access to mass media (the reference is the radio @Smallz) to mislead, and I use the word carefully, thousands, nay hundreds of thousands of people into a barbaric state of oppression. LOVE the parody between genocide and comedy, that’s brilliant man. Oh, and not stopping there, we just quickly ironed out the confusion and solved the Israeli-Palestinian war. Amazing!
See what I did there gent’s is have a rant like a little bitch being sarcastic whilst trying to be cool like Loyiso. Not funny, not comedy, not on.
PS: I love lamp
Smallz
(@) 24 Jun 2011
Jeees Jay, Silverstreak brought up Hitler not me! I was just lucky to have considered it (quite crudely I will admit) before he posted it.
Make of the historical part what you will. In short who is funny and who is not...is an endless debate of opinion. Who fills the venues though...is not a debate. Certain people do and certain people don't. I like to respect both and certainly prefer to understand why the people I think are kuk...get such big crowds. I think its a more constructive position to take than trying to elevate oneself above a certain brand of humour and the many that follow it.(ie. Anybody that likes this or thinks this is funny is an idiot) Honestly, seeing humour in this way is pretty base and shows you do not really want to understand anything beyond your own opinion. Anybody can say I like this...but I don't like that. So what...you just telling me you have an areshole too!
anneke
23 Jun 2011
How different are we when it comes to comedy? What is funny for one person is offensive to another. Ask anyone at a post-comedy-show drink who their favourite act was and the answer will vary greatly.
Comedians have for generations been mouthpieces for social issues, – they can say publicly what some only dare to think – and this has become a vital component in airing social issues in a ‘non confrontational’ manner. Loyiso Gola does this brilliantly – he has risked it all, tried it all and continues to grow as a comedian.
Does that mean that all comedians should go this route? Is a good fart joke passé? Obviously not.
Impersonators, Ventriloquists, Musical Comedy, Improv, the down-right-dirty guy, the one-liner king, the intellectual….we will always enjoy (and expect) diversity within the broadest selections of comedy genres and styles.
That is the beauty of it – whether you like or dislike Loyiso’s comedy (I think he is the funniest guy in SA today and so does the Wall Street Journal!) – he has done a great deal for comedy in this country.
And because of it – we have so much more access and choice as an audience – so you can decide for yourself if you like him or not (his one man show is in a few days) or any of the other comedians listed above. What a wonderful thing “choice” is – once you have it.
Jaco
23 Jun 2011
This reply just shows you how unfunny Loyiso is….
Paul Snodgrass
23 Jun 2011
Ok, this is just silly now. I promised myself I wouldn’t get involved, but I feel there are few things that NEED to be pointed out.
When Alternative comedy started in South Africa in the mid 90′s we were 2 decades behind the USA and the UK when it came to the progression of comedy.
When the UK were watching “The Young Ones” in 1982 we were still being served jokes about mother in laws, Van and people walking into bars.
Alternative comedy has a long way to go in SA. Yes, there are too many over done jokes, too many easy jokes, not enough comics pushing themselves to be new, fresh and ground breaking. (At times myself included)
But when you live in a country when the average person still finds the base, middle of the road comedy funnier than alternative stand up, what else can you do?
What has started happening and will happen more and more as generations grow up with alternative stand up, then more and more people will become comedy literate.
You have to remember that most of us writing on this wall grew up with bootleg versions of Eddie Murphy, Monty Python and The Young Ones.
The VAST majority of this country did not, and so to make a living unfortunately we do have to write some material for the common denominator, I personally try stay clear of this as much as possible, just ask any corporate bookers. I am not corporate friendly and is hurts my wallet in a big way.
What I find frustrating about Sipho’s rant was that he tarred all comics with the same brush. And brought writing comedy for TV into that tar brushing as well. There is a very big difference between writing stand up and writing sketches, sit-coms and political satire.
Yes, John Stewarts show is far better, yes American and UK sitcoms are far better, but as Warren Robertson pointed out so well, they have a far bigger budget and far more writers, with far more experience.
This new comedy wave in South Africa is so new, we are breaking rules and finding our way quite often in the dark, but we are finding our way.
And if you hate sit-coms in this country, sorry, but blame the channels and the production companies, I’ve been involved in many, many pitches, of very alternative TV shows, that were trashed, or asked to be changed to the point that it turned into Three’s Company rather than The Office.
We have some amazing comedians in the country, what comedy really needs now is a proper comedy circuit, so comics can craft their material and make a living without having pander to corporate functions to make a living. Or unfortunately the middle of the road comedy you all seem to be complaining about will never go away, cause it’s not financially worth a comics while to be very alternative.
Oh and I filled the Baxter for 3 nights doing my one man show, does that mean all those people are idiots too? Cause I’m definitely not a nice middle of the road comic, I’m a rant comic and most people in this country don’t like that. So believe me, there is a growing group of people who want that comedy, long may it continue.
Oh and sorry if the grammars bad, or the spellings terrible, I’m a comedian not a writer, I use spoken word, not the written.
Jay
23 Jun 2011
Snoddie is KAK funny!
Paul Snodgrass
(@) 23 Jun 2011
Wow Steve tell us what you really feel. ha ha ha ha.
Um I only filled the Baxter for 3 days, but you obviously do not get the irony that I was trying to put across.
And you'll notice how I mentioned no names and did not get personal, and um, have never watched Mr Bones. or Mr Bones II, but then if you'd read my entire post, you would have seen that I was trying to get that exact point across that until the SA public becomes more comedy literate then thats what comedy will be in the country.
In a weird way, we agree 100%
Well except for the being kak part. But then the best thing about the style of comedy i do is that I know that I won't have everyone loving me, but I don't do comedy to appeal to the masses, if I did, I wouldn't write what I do.
Um, but that is your point about Mr Bones isn't it, hmmmm, wow so actually you do dig me, you just don't know it yet, awesome. See you at the next show.
Have a lovely day.
I'm sure you're not kak, in fact I'm pretty sure you're pretty kiff.
steve
(@) 23 Jun 2011
I disagree, I reckon Snoddie is just kak. but we all have our own opinions. and thumbs up to him for filling theatres. (ps. if you want to shout the numbers game; then remember that titanic, mr bones and mr bones II are SA's highest grossing flicks)
Amazing that this post has created such a platform, and all comics have been offended somehow. In my mind our satire is brilliant..we have zanews and hayibo.com, now if only we could find a way for them to make money off it!
steve
(@) 24 Jun 2011
Hey snoddie, we are indeed agreeing about the original post. I'm actually convinced that Sipho Hlongwane is just a Seth pseudonym - has anyone seen him in real life?
I don't think you're funny, but that's surely just the part and parcel of having a niche style? Maybe it will grow on me, who knows.
The mr bones thing wasn't directed at you( should have had its own paragraph-sorry) but was referring to Warren's article, where he brings in the Shusterian Scale - and what works in terms of tv revenue is not necessarily regarded as 'funny' by all. (I haven't watched either, but still have fond memories of 'vintage Shuster' - bit scared to watch oh shucks it's UNTAG now to be honest).
Paul Snodgrass
(@) 23 Jun 2011
I like lamp, and Jay
Rob
23 Jun 2011
Snoddies one man rant at the Baxter was the funniest stand up comedy I have ever seen. When is the next one planned you angry little ginger man?
mynameis
23 Jun 2011
Well Put Snoddie!!! When did you become a ginger? Or have you been lying to me the whole time? Please don’t bite me…
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