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  • NetDynamix Responds To Internet Radio Listenership Allegations – Orders Immediate Audit

    27 Jun 2012 by Seth Rotherham in 2oceansvibe Radio, Featured

    NEWSFLASH
    NETDYNAMIX WILL BE INTERVIEWED LIVE ON AIR LATER TODAY
    CLICK HERE FOR MORE ABOUT THAT 

    South Africa’s online community was rocked by stunning allegations made on Monday, as local IT practitioner, Shaun Dewberry, released a damning report challenging the listenership figures claimed by radio stations including 2oceansvibe Radio and Ballz Radio. In it’s conclusion, Dewberry stated:

    I first became aware that it seemed as though 2Oceansvibe were fabricating listener numbers. I verified that these numbers were false using technical knowledge of the solutions in use. When Ballz Radio launched and they too started publishing incredibly inflated listener numbers – it became apparent that NetDynamix is supplying false listener statistics.

    Netdynamix have been handling the streams of a number of high-profile radio stations for ‘close on a decade’.

    All 2oceansvibe Radio’s published listenership figures are provided by Netdynamix. As a result, 2ov.fm immediately acknowledged on Twitter that while these allegations are very serious, Netdynamix should be given the professional courtesy to respond to the methods employed and findings of the Dewberry report – which they have now done.

    Click ‘continue reading’ below to see their response.

    They (Netdynamix) also sent a lawyer’s letter to Shaun Dewberry, which he published here.

    This is Netdynamix’s response to the allegations:

    NetDynamix Online Solutions CC – Members: C. Grant
    P.O. Box 4266, Edenvale, 1610
    Tel: (087) 350-3523
    Fax: (086) 648-0686
    Email: sales@netdynamix.co.za
    Web: www.netdynamix.co.za

    PRESS RELEASE REGARDING RECENT ALLEGATIONS AGAINST NETDYNAMIX

    In response to the recent statements made against ourselves (NetDynamix) and our clients (Ballz Radio, 2oceansVibe Radio and Kingfisher FM) we would like to clear up a few points.

    NetDynamix is a technology supplier to the radio broadcast industry and our core business is the distribution of our clients content over the internet. At present we service 73 clients on a regular basis, some of these being FM/AM stations that simply relay the terrestrial broadcasts on to the internet and the balance are internet only radio services.

    The technology and means used to distribute our clients radio stations is not something that we are willing to make public as this enables us to deliver a cost-effective solution to our clients where others find it difficult. We believe that this is not an unreasonable statement, as the technology in question does not contravene any laws or codes of conduct. We therefore suggest that the figures quoted in the published statements are not a reflection of the bigger picture as the general public do not have access to all of our systems. Prior to the issue being raised on the internet, NetDynamix started investigating the possibility of finding an external “auditor” to confirm the accuracy of our numbers. This is still part of our strategy and we see the importance of this “certification” process as an added benefit to our clients, and the industry as a whole, and
    we are more than happy to engage with the correct parties going forward. In the meantime, NetDynamix has identified a few independent industry experts, who we will be engaging with today, and will setup a forum to verify our stats. The process has already started and the names will be released as soon as the people identified confirm their availability.

    We do not agree with the basis and method that Mr Shaun Dewberry has used to arrive at his findings simply because he does not have full and unhindered access to our entire network, nor does he have an understanding of the methods that we employ to manage our network and it’s resources. We are further aggrieved that 1) we were not invited to engage with Mr Shaun Dewberry during his process of researching his article at which time we would have been able to illustrate to him that his view was not holistic, and 2) the defamatory nature of his article towards NetDynamix following the release of his article.

    As with any research related to defining audiences there are many variables to consider with collating data and the interpretation of this data. NetDynamix, on request, provide their clients with numbers based on “sessions”. A session is defined as a connection to the server(s) in order to receive the audio/video stream. This does not take into account that a listener could change devices or lose their connection to the server, at which point it needs to be reestablished, or the change in IP address of that connection or change in route from point of connection to breakout onto the internet; to name just a few examples of multiple sessions being initiated to the service.

    It would not be in the interest of NetDynamix to give their clients any information other than the raw numbers generated by these “sessions”.

    The following is a random day in May 2012 (which is not their highest figure set available) for Ballz Radio which shows the hour by hour total number of sessions which were initiated to our servers for the Ballz Visual Radio Stream:

    08:00 – 6 012
    09:00 – 8 408
    10:00 – 15 359
    11:00 – 26 579
    12:00 – 48 599
    13:00 – 49 337
    14:00 – 59 764
    15:00 – 57 364
    16:00 – 54 359
    17:00 – 46 666
    18:00 – 10 953
    19:00 – 8 121
    20:00 – 8 137
    21:00 – 2 338
    22:00 – 2 102
    23:00 – 2 666

    On average our systems reflect that the audience for Ballz Visual Radio is composed of 31% International listeners and 69% Local. 

    NetDynamix have no reason to inflate these numbers as the clients are not remunerating us on a per listener basis, they pay a fixed monthly fee in order to use our system. We standby what we have presented and reiterate that we are investigating a way to independently verify these figures and methodology via an impartial technical specialist, auditor or journalist.

    Similarly 2oceansVibe figures have also been raised. Their session statistics show a different session spread, typicaly known as a trend, but essentially make up a similar number of sessions at particular broadcast hours.

    On the matter of Kingfisher FM, we cannot entertain a comparitive view of a partial month of figures (the month that they moved to us) coupled with a total peak in that we do not have access to their listenership figures prior to them moving their audio streaming service to our company, as this was not provided to them by their previous hosts.

    NetDynamix would be interested in getting involved with the development of a “standard” that could be used to define the audiences on internet radio. We encourage robust debate on this and other subjects related to internet radio.

    For any questions related to this release, please do not hesitate to contact our General Manager, Mr Hanz Stricker on hanz@netdynamix.co.za or telephonically on 081 316 6143.

    _______________________________
    Chris Grant
    CEO: NetDynamix Online Solutions CC
    [source]

    _______________________________

         

    BELOW, FROM 2OCEANSVIBE MEDIA – ON BEHALF OF 2OCEANSVIBE RADIO

    1) For the sake of transparency 2oceansvibe Media would like to clarify the format in which 2oceansvibe Radio receives the data from Netdynamix. As an example, here is an exact screenshot of the reporting we have received in the past from Netdynamix.

    2) Along with furnishing this information, 2oceansvibe Media would like to state in no uncertain terms that we think a thorough audit should be undertaken with the greatest urgency, as suggested, in order to:

    a) ascertain whether the quoted ‘sessions’ are correct and

    b)) define an industry specific ‘standard’ which we can use going forward so as to avoid any further confusion in the market.

    3) As we enter our third year of operation, 2oceansvibe Radio pledges to follow-through with its mission to change South Africa’s desperate radio industry for the better and we thank all our loyal listeners and clients for their support. It should be mentioned that most of our current clients are return customers who have received nothing but satisfactory, affordable results working with 2oceansvibe Radio. That will never change as we continue to challenge the status quo.

    4) While we wait for the urgent audit as above, here are some stats that 2oceansvibe can categorically declare are 100% accurate and available for scrutiny upon request.

    a) Our 2oceansvibe Radio app (for mobile listening) has been downloaded over 45,000 times.

    b) The combined Twitter following of our Radio presenters and 2oceansvibe entities is 137,000 followers.

    c) A recent survey (here) which received 1,035 individual responses, revealed that 77% of the 2oceansvibe News readers, tuned in to 2oceansvibe Radio. We used Google Forms to conduct the survey.

    d) in the last month 2oceansvibe News received 247,805 unique visitors.

     

    Join the conversation and tune in to 2oceansvibe Radio online or on your phone at www.2ov.fm (you can download the app there as well) to see what the fuss is all about – it only uses 20mb/hour!

    We’re streaming music 24/7 with live programming (DJ+tunes) from 8am to 10pm Monday to Friday.

    Our studios are situated in Cape Town’s de Waterkant and Johannesburg’s trendy Melrose Arch! 

     

    • ← SA Drops To 127th On Global Peace Index
    • NetDynamix CEO To Answer Questions Live On Air – Interview At 17h03 →
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    • RichardAtUCT

      Does t it worry you guy a bit that they still haven’t released any raw data?
      It’s pretty easy to just make up the numbers they quoted.
      Well done on being transparent with your own viewer numbers.

    • http://URL Joan

      @2ov
      I would like to congratulate your entire team on the way you have handled this situation. Im sure you will come out of this better and stronger.

    • http://URL Kevin

      Seth, I must say, kudos to you and the way you’ve handled this. You have remained amicable, professional, and reasonable. You have not engaged in ad hominem attacks and have simply presented the facts.

      In my personal opinion, I do believe that the figures may be somewhat inflated. I am not questioning the quality of the content, simply that the figures just don’t add up. Whilst 2oceansvibe.com is undoubtedly popular, internet radio is in its infancy and 60000 connected users seems like a far stretch.

      I, along with loads of other bystanders, anxiously await the outcome of this audit.

    • http://URL Jagter

      yoh! A shitstorm is brewing over this one.
      Kudos to 2OV for the way it has been handled. (which is more than can be said about a certain station that rhymes with halls)

    • http://WebsiteURL Would Like To Remain Anon

      Am I reading this correctly? NetDynamix are admitting there aren’t as many listeners as claimed? It’s like the hits vs pageviews vs visitors vs unique vistors argument of years gone by…

      So, at worst they’ve been reporting hits as visitors to 2ov, or at best 2ov misunderstood the report and has been incorrectly reported it?

      Please clarify… I’m “slightly technically clued up”, but completely legally ignorant… NetDynamix’ response sounds very legal, but not very clear.

    • http://WebsiteURL Clive

      Love 2OV but Darren Scott is a tool…

    • http://easyaspie.co.za Shannon

      Compliments on the way you’ve handled this whole situation. Ballz Radio, particularly, Darren Scott, should take some tips on professionalism from you guys. Looking forward to seeing the outcome.

    • http://URL Mandrake

      @ Anon – think it’s a case of NetDynamix mis-representing the the figures to 2ov? The stats pic they have posted says “Total Listeners” ?

      Not sure if I am reading it right?

    • http://URL Still Anon Please

      and if new sessions = new listeners, how do they get to the average listener times then? Surely the average listener time would then be in the order of seconds and not 2+ hours.

    • http://URL legal eagle

      Interesting that they have threatened Shaun with high court papers and he ignored them. They have done done nothing since. They have disproved none of his findings. As far as the IP adress swithcing goes from different devices, go read the MyBroadband forums where other tech savvy people have already disproved NetDynamix claim.

      This is all still just smoke and mirrors and PR spin. Well done to you guys nonetheless for the manner in which you handled this, but this is far from over. Good luck.

    • http://www.777productions.com Deon Fialkov

      WOW…WOW…WOW…WOW…

      what a story for my week…

      Anyhow…it’s an interesting PDF by Shaun the hacker Berry, but how did he get those IP numbers and port numbers ? Did he hack? Was he running a port-scan on the IP addresses mentioned? Did he get permission to do so?

      Seems like Shaun either doesn’t like online radio or he’s doing a publicity stunt to boost traffic.

      I love commenting on Seth Rotherham’s website and to me , readership numbers doesn’t interest me that much. It’s quality that counts to me. Articles are well-written, well-presented.

      It’s the same debacle scenario as recruitment specialists have mentioned to the past “Deon, we have 2000 CVs on our database”…blah blah blah, but Mr/Ms/Mrs Recruitment Specialist , how many people have you placed from those 2000 CVs? 10 % , 15 %, 20 % – your inflated sales-pitch doesn’t impress me either.

      I recommend that people should rather become their own bosses , than struggle to deal with inflated sales stories.

      God gave you a brain …utilise it…if you’re unsure of what to do, how to do it, READ…

      If you can’t read, install a reading application.

      Seth Rotherham, you will always have haters. I’ve got my own haters that fabricated stories about me. It’s called jealousy. I call my network of haters 666. I can’t blame them that I’m hotter than their devil.

      To NetDynamix, don’t stress about it…You can do your audit, but it won’t phase us, the fans. We get our news-worthy , quality articles irrespective of whether there’s 40 people or 40 million people listening.

      QUALITY material is BETTER than NO MATERIAL.

      #777 is better than #666

    • http://URL NetJokeNamics

      pathetic that they now claim its “sessions” but in their report to 2OV they say “listeners”. HUGE difference…

    • http://www.lazygamer.net Gavin

      Er Shaun doesn’t need permission to run a port scan from his own machine.. it’s not hacking it’s simply tracing.

      I still think there is something dodgy here and this official comment from NetDynamix hasn’t made me feel any more comfortable about their figures.

    • http://www.lazygamer.net Gavin

      It’s a terrible response from NetDynamix and honestly makes them look worse.

      Great response from 2Oceans though and I’m sure they are as worried as the rest of the industry over these figures.

      This legal nonsense about Shaun needing to check his report with NetDynamix first is utter BS though, if NetDynamix can prove it’s fundamentally flawed then by all means sue him broken.

      But if you can’t then I foresee 2Oceans and Ballz suing NetDynamix in return for fraud.

    • http://gevaaalik.com Stix

      “The technology and means used to distribute our clients radio stations is not something that we are willing to make public…”

      That kinda says something, doesn’t it?

      As for your screeny of your analytics page. That is a screeny of your 2oceansvibe.com page. That is not where people who listen to your radio station would go. People who listen to your radio station has to go to 2oceansviberadio.com. So post a screeny of that. And not a small one like the one above, one that we can see full screen so we can actually see the numbers. Even better would be if you gave a screeny of 2oceansviberadio.com/listen-live-now/ . Not that that show how many listeners you have per hour, but it’s would give a better indication than what you did here.

      I don’t understand why this is so hard.

    • Seth

      Hey Stix – thanks for the comments.

      Just to clarify – we put that screenshot up to show readership stats of 2oceansvibe News – as you have rightly said. It was done to expand on the previous point about a survey we did, which found 77% of our readers of 2ov News, tune in to 2oceansvibe Radio. The nature of any survey is to use a sample group to estimate what the total amount might look like.

      This was part of point 4, which was headed – “While we wait for the urgent audit as above, here are some stats that 2oceansvibe can categorically declare are 100% accurate and available for scrutiny upon request.”

    • http://www.likeablelab.co.za Schalk

      Great response Seth. I’ve been sitting on the edge of my seat waiting for your take on the whole matter since yesterday.

      Been reading up all the comments on MyBroadband and it looks like NetDynamix are indeed projecting false metrics according to a lot of the MyBB members.

      Will NetDynamix slap a lawsuit on all the MyBB members who participated and conducted more research too? What about me for commenting here? It’s the Internet for fuck sake.

    • http://www.777productions.com Deon Fialkov

      Ok, fair enough…

      The quantity of listeners is very important , especially if you’re planning on advertising or sponsoring your business on air – you would like the correct readership and demographic statistics.

      Do the audit.

      Whoever is at fault, should try to remedy the situation.

      But whatever is going to happen is going to happen.

      This is a MASSIVE STORY that concerns online media.

    • http://www.777productions.com Deon Fialkov

      I couldn’t reply to your earlier posting because you posted via twitter.

      Thanks for the update regarding tracing/hacking.

      Much appreciated. :)

    • http://www.777productions.com Deon Fialkov

      Mystified why such an interesting opinion is visible by keeping your identity anonymous.

      Your opinion is interestingly presented.

      Would be great to have a name that goes with a ghost title. Creates a better interactive audience.

    • http://WebsiteURL Mark

      Great to see so many computer geeks so hot under the collar about an issue – and not when the next series of Game of Thrones will be available to download or when the iphone 5 will be out.

      Nice one!

    • http://eric.vonbratt.com Eric von Bratt

      I think it’s become blatantly obvious that Shaun has exposed Net Dynamix very successfully as grossly misreporting their stats. Since then it has been all but concluded that they have been purporting to present sessions as unique listeners. Your average low bandwidth internet user in SA is going to reconnect to a stream multiple times an hour. A mobile phone user even more so! This obviously results in huge session figures. Session figures therefore are pretty meaningless when it comes to measuring online stream listeners.

      2OV and BallzRadio are not technically to blame for the figures – the blame lies with Net Dynamix that supplied them with the figures.

      Not quite sure what Net Dynamix’s independent report is for (other than sh*tstorm avoidance) as we know cause already. Their response: issue the whistleblower with legal papers and post a statement of nonsense? Poor show.

      Sadly (even though I love BallRadio), Darren Scot’s response was “heavy handed” to say the least. 2OV’s response has been perfect.

      It leaves me wondering what happened to the days when companies would put up their hands and say “Sorry, we made a mistake. We apologize”. Net Dynamix? No..?

    • http://gevaaalik.com Stix

      Thanks for the response Seth.

      I just had to point it out. For instance on my site my readership does not compare with the amount of people who listen to our podcast. We have way more readers than people who listen to the podcast or download the podcast. So I just thought I would point that out.

      I think you should make sure that Shaun Dewberry part of the auditing team.

    • http://URL ps

      the moment a company starts citing “trade secrets” you know that something is up.

    • http://URL SK

      Fact is 1% of the SA population do not listen to online radio.

    • http://URL Dylan

      I also applaud you for the manner in which you handled the situation when compared to how your competition did.

      However how did you arrive at the 137,000 twitter followers stat?

      If you just added up all the total twitter followers for each account that’s a bit naive. It makes the twitter number mean a lot less…

      For instance @2OVfm and @RichardHardiman have 1054 followers in common of Richard’s ~3200 http://tweepdiff.com/@2OVfm.followers/@RichardHardiman.followers

      Also posting google analytics for 2oceansviberadio.com would be a lot more insightful than posting for 2oceansvibe.com

    • http://URL Paul

      For the sake of transparency, please post a picture of your Google Analytics stats for the listen live page. The one posted above is of no use as it’s not for the listen live page. I’m fairly certain that only a portion of visitors to your site actually go to the listen live page, but if you could post the stats then we can see what that portion is.

    • http://tiltrepublic.com christopher steenkamp

      Whatever this is, it isn’t boring.
      Have always loved the quality of work you guys put out there.
      Well done on the transparency and I hope this gets sorted so we can get on with the real task at hand, being entertained/entertaining.
      Keep up the rad work.

    • http://URL Al

      45,000 mobile app downloads means nothing. I know of 5 people who downloaded the app and have never been able to connect to the stream (myself included). Plus I have an Android, iPad and blackberry, downloaded the app on 3 platforms but it doesn’t mean you have 3 listeners.

      Anyway, that’s besides the point. I am of the opinion these stats supplied by NetDynamix is inflated heavily

    • http://URL Rob Burns

      Ignore all things technical and this still doesn’t make sense.

      Business model: Customer X with 100 listeners (costing service provider approx. R200) is charged the same fixed monthly fee as Customer Y with 50 000 listeners (costing service provider approx. R115000).

      Huh?

    • http://URL Eric

      @Rob – I believe that’s where the CDN (or lack thereof) comes into play… with a proper CDN the cost price for the provider probably would be similar regardless of listener numbers. You’re right though, in ND’s case there’s apparently no CDN so the numbers indeed don’t match up – which is part of Shaun’s argument.

    • http://URL Dylan

      Not true! You’d get charged for bandwidth which in the case of 50000 listeners would be a huge number!

    • http://URL Andre

      Why does bookings to Computicket fall flat? Is it 50k people fighting for only 45k seats per minute, is it routers, bank interfaces, what banks (the one with the adds on the radio, not ballz, radio radio), no way in hell will your interweb radio serve 50k people a minute, it cant even do simple booking with its loadbalacers and webfarms for lady Gaga. Dream on SA, dream on. U2 bookings followed the same trend, pattern.

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